Ka-Bar knife with markings Step 1: Identifying the Markings Look around the knife for markings on the body. Copyright 2004-2023 allaboutpocketknives.com, AAPK Tips and Tricks -- An Illustrated FAQ Forum on Steriods, Knife Lore - Traditional Knives From the Old Days, Canal Street Cutlery Collector's Forum, Cattaraugus Cutlery Collector's Forum, Great Eastern Cutlery (GEC) Collector's Forum, Robeson Cutlery Company Collector's Forum, Schatt & Morgan Knife Collector's Forum, Knife Related Creation, Modification, And Restoration Forums. In the early 70s, our para riggers would sew a pouch on the inside leg of our flight suits into which the knife and scabbard were placed. camillus knife identification. Dated 10/30/1941. The two sheaths while marked differently, IMHO are from the same manufacture. Although it would appear that their presence in the theater of operations was mostly due to them being part of certain aircraft survival kits. This is when Camillus re-designed their screw top pommel. flat sided pommel to be used for hammering prior to the adoption of the hex Only the same "Camillus N.Y." markings, either on the normally found pile or reverse side of the blade, or stamped on the Name side or front of the knife. is the only one that survived the Marines. They might choose to, but be prepared to pay for their skills and knowledge also. Thanks for your response. Wonderful read! Now, contractors didn't just immediately stop what they were doing and make the transition, they continued with the existing product before the transition. One of the tasks that this knife was designed to accomplish was helping pilots and aircrews egress their downed aircraft or to help first responders extract them from their downed aircraft. Both have dark what I believe is blued blades. After camillus used up their remaining supply of dated pommels Camillus started using the tang stamping again on the blades. by orvet Thu May 30, 2013 2:01 pm, Post There was a spin off copy cat comp. The one on the left there is a bevel at the top of the grip. I will highly recommend this site! This happens in so many cases, utilizing the already fabricated material until exhausted then make the change. Your email address will not be published. The sharpened clip point on the blade allows the pilot to punch a hole in the aluminum then use the knife spine as a hasty saw to cut through the aircraft skin during an aircraft egress situation. Over the decades, this document has been updated. The original contracts (August '59) for the JPK called for a 6" blade with threaded pommel attachment. Thanks for sharing. Not Adopted, Case and Catt got the Q knife together at the same time. SKIP. Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. Also it is not cut to put on a belt. Otherwise, it would be much easier to go through their files to find out which Ka-bar knives were made when. This sample made 1939. if it was in Vietnam it must have been with some other folks not the US If you dont go to knife shows, you might also have some luck with veteran knife collectors in your locale. The genesis of the Air Force Survival Knife goes back to the 1950s at the dawn of the jet age. Follow these steps to date the Ka-bar knife this way: Look around the knife for markings on the body. In New York City. Sign up for a new account in our community. The condition of the knife is worn, but otherwise good. repro has a very short and sharply curved false edge. The one on the left is a 1972 and the one on the right has no date. Thanks again for writing about this knife and taking the time to research it and share your findings. I just bought this knife from Ontario Knife Company. These markings will usually show on the tang since they are less likely to wear and be scratched off there. You are able to get the knife because it is dummy corded to you. S-4007 hand marked on the blade, Guardless and serrated Above we feature the Camillus USMC reproduction. surely wasn't in Vietnam unless it was with a tourist. A Short History of the U. S. Army M-1950 Lensatic Compass Major Hykr, Knife Survival System: The Ka-Bar Becker Champion BK2 Major Hykr, 3 Outstanding Survival Knives For Backpackers Major Hykr, Air Force S u r v i v a l K n i f e | norsedefense, Top 10 U.S. Military Gear For Backpackers Major Hykr, The Stories Behind 7 Infamous U.S. Military Knives | Fishing, https://prc68.com/I/OneManLifeRaft.html#Knife, Best Survival Knife of 2022: Dont Hit The Trail Without It! by glennbad Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:48 am, Post For all that good, though, some bad actors have learned how to make fake Camillus knives and pass them off as vintage. Look at these two knives in the photo below. I was in Boy Scouts. But you have an injury to your arm. Can't recall seeing. These are the remaining items that were left in the Camillus factory show I have several good photos of the knife which Id be happy to forward but there doesnt seem to be a way to send them to you on this site. Required fields are marked *. You must log in or register to reply here. If you send me your email address I can send you photos. PS If you buy the knife today, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you. Made after march 1985 to 2006. ). Both have leather grips. I've heard arguments on both sides, but as of yet I'd be uncomfortable moving the positions beyond the level of opinion. If it were possible to convert you surely would be able to! Frank explained that Camillus made 4 versions of this blade, 3 of which were adopted by the military. The other contractors made the Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were granted approval. The Camillus knives went to the war (WWI & WWII), was handcrafted for some presidents, and lived more than 100 years before the company shut down. this out before you buy. It has two blades; one is a standard 2.5-inch cutting blade and the other is a locking. If you, Read More How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New)Continue, Barlow knives are considered by some knife collectors to be up there with the 1918 trench knife. Step 2: Read the markings You could find either the USMC or USN MK2 marking on the knife. You mentioned the Ontario KNife Company briefly in the article. Most of the information that I have collected about the knife comes from blogs and knife forums on the internet. Ontarios knife became procured by the U.S. Army and was issued a National Stock Number, NSN: 1095-01-530-0833 within the Federal Supply System. - Knives That Make the Cut, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives | AI WAR NEWS, Why this Air Force blade is a workhorse of military survival knives Armed Forces Connect, Ontario Knife Company 499 Air Force Survival Knife (Review) 2022 Veteran Headlines, The 12 Most Common Items in A Survival Kit, Top 10 U.S. Military Gear For Backpackers. I have one that my grandfather made for his brother in ww2 for the army air corps. Interesting article. To re-arrange a genuine item like this would be quite a task. The new design that was adopted was the 6 inch JPK. This tang stamp was used by Camillus from 1946 to 1950. The company manufactured Camillus branded knives and was a prolific contractor for other knife brands up until its last days in 2007 when the company filed for bankruptcy. The guard is stamped CAMILLUS on one side, U.S.N. I hope this helps. USMC Raider reproduction with fine pewter handle. Some companies marked them and some did not. Additionally, the jet age in military aviation increased the number of gear pilots and aircrews had to carry on their flights. After more than two decades (1897) in this business, importation costs for the knives were getting higher and wiping out Adolphs profits. The way that Camillus 5733 knives are marked can give us a general idea of when the knife was made. I would, thus, rather you look at the knife itself rather than trying to use the sheath to make a judgment. Here are some ways to identify a fake Camillus knife: The tang stamps are all over the place; There is a mix of lower and uppercase letters; The font is a bit off; Short and curved false edge (as opposed to the long sweeping false edge of the WWII knife) Scabbards are marked with Eagle, Globe and Anchor Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNil1897 1909Union Cut. metal tip protectors. The holes in the hand guard were used to tie the knife to the scabbard which was in turn then tied to the knife pouch or survival vest. Eventually the U.S. Navy adopted the knife after failures on the Mark 1 and renamed it the U.S. Navy Mark 2. If you are interested in the Camillus M4 That, however, only makes getting the exact era that these fine knives came from a more interesting affair. For some reason or other I always thought the bright, lack of USN, Camillus blades were a late production, or post war variation. Late 1944 production through till contracts were completed or cancelled in 1945, you find those knives more alike or much more similar characteristics. S-6541 marked Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass pins marked Kent S-6541 marked, Another as above As above with different tang markings, still a Kent head pommel. knife for training and issue. These rubber-gripped bayonets are thought to have come from Asia, possibly from South Korea. This knife fits in with by Colonel666 Mon May 27, 2013 2:59 am, Post There were a few more hand changes of the business over the years but by then, we had entered the modern era of the knives. Unknown Hunting Knife: Kent was a trade name used by F W This is the early AAC It was common for everything in a survival vest to have a lanyard. You would often find knife collectors and enthusiasts who know a lot about these blades at knife shows. I have 2 Camillus Knives that are similar but different. the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. Your email address will not be published. Don't know how durable or even if it is any good. The one I have comes with a green pouch that went on the vest and the leather sheath was sewn into the pouch. Camillus knives may contain one to six individual blades, knife use caution when opening them. I was hoping to find the history of these knives, along with pics of the different versions and years. edge. The journey of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover. Instead, he sought out a smaller cutlery brand in Camillus and joined the management team. Ka-bar did not just make straight knives or folding knives. I personally looked into every draw and found these Thanks for all the photos. Maybe you can help me out here. qualified technician to remove the surface rust and dirt on them. It's easy! Thus, when the Ka-bar knife company was changing hands, it was also getting different stamps and logos. It was enlightening to discover that there is very little information available on the background and origins of this knife. If you look closely at it the tang stamp is for an early example of that fullered blade, and so far is the only example of one with this style hilt that I've run across. I will send you pics if you want but the condition is probably average or less but thats a guess. Due to the change in ownership of the brand, and the fact that we have some information on what the changes happened, we can use the tang stamps to know when the knife was made. Hi John, Camillus Kabar Knife History. Since Camillus is highlighted here, the bright blades were the initial production knives. The Camillus Cutlery company closed shop in 2007, only to be resurrected in 2009 by Acme United Corporation, which acquired the naming rights. Here are some links to other threads touching on this subject. These sheaths are in a very different style from the You are correct. by ken6 Wed May 29, 2013 11:11 pm, Post large bakelite pommel and multiple spacers. knife that was adopted. It would also be much easier to confirm additional details about the knives, not just who made them and when. Thanks for your help. rivets, Kent Sportsman with etching and stagged bone and large So Ive read that one way to tell a WW2 Kabar is the pommel will be pinned from both sides as well as peened. Is this unusual? However, it was particularly designed for use by forces in need of a close combat knife, such as Airborne Units and Army Rangers, so these units received priority for the M3 at the start of . Powered by Invision Community, US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Valor is the name of the US company that retailed the 998. In the guides to dating Schrade knives, dating kissing crane knives, and knowing what era your ka-bar knife is from, there were a lot of years to deal with. It was made from a spring off a model T. The sheath was made from a leather belt off a steam tractor. Camillus was on contract to make Buck knives from 1968 after Schrade stopped making them. Enjoy! Do you think your Camillus is older than your friends, but neither is sure? The Marine Corps then also renamed the knife the USMC Mark 2 Combat Knife. This resulted in a long line of impressive, sturdy knives that have become vintage and collectors items today. This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. The bolt end of the handle is unmarked. Your email address will not be published. I have a knife stamped Ontario 2 80 which seems to be either an Air Force or Navy issue pilot survival knife. Challenges of Dating a Ka-Bar knife properly, Multiple Methods to Dating a Ka-bar Knife, Method #1 Identify the Logo/ Tang Stamp, Stainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y, The stamp font is thin and shallow, compared to the non-WW2 options, The blade has a darker patina rather than being powder coated, WW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinned. Schrade Knife Identification (www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us) Schrade Knives (AAPK-All About Pocket Knives) Victorinox. It is kind of interesting that the concepts the BuOrd used to formulate the design they wanted for the Mark 1 came from two knives, Pal actually made the Mark 1 closest to the drawing. I'm just not in possession of good references to documentation that would support my opinion yet. Thanks! This is usually where I first look at when dating knives. and the empty draws. One Side of the blade should have the Camillus Knife brand and the identification should have the blade number. Both have leather grips. Great knife for camping or scouting I carried mine on walks in the woods. I would classify them as USAAF knives. It is WW II era and dual tang marked and etched. The M3 knife consists of 3 pressed steel parts: The blade, the hilt and the pommel washer. They are back again and better then ever. Thanks for the feedback. Thus, it took special care and attention to identify which company made which one, before going deeper to ascertain the date period around when the knife was made. Appreciating the persistence you put into your site and in depth information you provide. As a further development on the Air Force Survival Knife, the Ontario Knife Company offers a second-generation civilian version of the knife in its Special Purpose SP series of knives. I have never seen that variation. Hi. Model number 5686. He started importing and selling German-made knives to his U.S. audience. By the close of 1943, a satisfactory method was applied. It is well preserved and stored away since my discharge in 1966. A German himself, and having spent enough time in the U.S.A. to know the market landscape, this business venture was not difficult for him. scabbard marked with the Eagle, Globe and Anchor is a current reproduction They got into every kind of game and having different manufacturers along the line meant that they all didnt have to stick to the same design philosophy. This registration, granted in 1980, is for use of paranitrophenol as a fungicide incorporated into leather for military use, at a concentration not to exceed 0.7% on the basis of dry finished leather weight. That is some inspirational stuff. "S" Cards and drawings, dates, etc, associated with these knives pins marked Kent, As above with different tang markings, still a Kent. I cant glean a date of manufacture from the stamp. You might get lucky and pick the right thing, but you could just as well get scammed of your money. Many of us have been exposed to the fixed blade knife known popularly as the Air Force Survival Knife. survival kit knife with straight line marking. auction. I have not the Army needed one as well to replace the M2 pocket knife. The rarest USMC knife in Just looks cute. I sent some pictures I have of mine, Major. These are the true originals that went to the war and every other one after that was made after the war. This was one they wanted to make but never did. I find no marks on it but it was well used with rust stains. Navy didn't agree. Example would be you have crashed landed and might be on your side up in the air. Engineers. the font is a bit off but hard to tell apart if you do not have the two together at the same time. It is assumed that such information resides in the archives of the companies that have manufactured the knife as well as the files of the DoD. A knife for sale on Frank Trzaska's site shows a sheath with the same care instructions stamped into it, with the knife keeper in a different location. However, based on the information that I have collected, vetted, and coupled with my own experience with the DoD procurement and testing process, here is the basic history of this knife. One of the nice things about this forum is having so many eyes available for looking. This knife has been around for many years. Finally Ive found something which helped me. It is said to have been used on knives manufactured from the early 1930s to the mid 1940s. Consequently, the knife blade being reduced from six inches to five inches allowed it to retain some of the qualities necessary to carry out survival tasks, but small enough that it could be easily stowed on an aircrewmans vest without causing interference for aircrews trying to carry out their duties while flying. existence. A second fungicidal product was registered in 1967. and sold through the PX system as well. It is also suspected that knife makers will begin to find ways to improve the knife and manufacture their versions of the knife similar to what knife companies are doing with other legacy knife designs. By 1876, after his uncles company had to close shop due to poor sales figures, Adolph charted out a new path for himself. The sharpening stone size shall be 3 inches long, 7/8-inch-wide, and 1/4 inch thick. One interesting thing about the sheath is it doesnt have the pocket for the stone. The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false If I am honest, theyre not the only ones to make this mistake. The handle was cut from the same belt using a sharpened piece of steel tubing to make washers then tightened down with a nut off an old tractor head. I used it for Scouting till 1968. Now, that said, a few cautionary words that I put on the kissing crane knife dating piece too: Make sure you look for a reputable expert to get this done for you. Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNilFrom 1909Union Cut. touched them in anyway, as you see them is how they were in the showroom. Charlie I happen to agree with your take here. This knife looks a lot HiI'm new to the site and am trying to identify a knife my daughter found yesterday. The leather will be treated with para-nitrophenol fungicide. These influences upon the procurement system tempered the DoD design features of the knife. Has can openers, awl, driver. Theyre not like the other vintage war knives Ive dated because theyre not fighting knives. That stamp is different than the one used earlier. Possibly, some may have had one issued to them while serving in the military. Those who do not currently own one should purchase one. In my estimation I would not include the Camillus 5 inch blades with fullers in a discussion about Navy Mark I knives. The knives will be sold as a group only. In the testing Western won the contract knife. Do you have any additional information on what the 6-89 is and how it fits in the history. Since the knife was not making it to only American troops but the allies, the demand was genuinely high. Heres another variant knife that Frank Trzaska mentions in his 6/01/2002 knife knotes. The Brown family held on for more than half a decade before finally selling the brand again in 1961. Some of the knives have no branch of service marking on them. We inspected them and put them into survival gear for CH-46, CH-53,and cobras. Currently, the military-grade Air Force Survival Knife is only manufactured and sold by the Ontario Knife Company. This design was accepted, and the military specifications documents were updated to reflect Marbles concept in MIL-K-8662A (04 November 1957). The same is true for family businesses that have been selling knives for generations as they tend to have such literature lying around. If the knife does not have the leather handle, it is most likely a knock off produced for the civilian market. Nickel silver guards made in 1948. Adolph Kastor immigrated to the U.S.A. when he was 14 and worked in his uncles hardware company. where possible. US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY With a decline in the number of such people, it becomes more challenging to get original information on what a ka-bar knife is, and when it made the market. Dale AAPK Administrator with their design. Which were granted approval send you photos to go through their files to the! Schrade knife Identification ( www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us ) Schrade knives ( AAPK-All about pocket ). Originals that went on the Mark 1 and renamed it the U.S. Army and was a... As you see them is how they were in the history of these knives, along with pics of grip. 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